56. Planning With Ambiguity

Intro: Duration: (02:18)

Opening music jingle & sound effects

Jeff Hunt:

This Human Capital Podcast is brought to you by GoalSpan, a performance management app that helps you set goals, get real-time feedback, run reviews, and align your workforce around what's most important. With GoalSpan, you can integrate with all your favorite HR and payroll apps. To learn more, go to GoalSpan.com.

Hi everyone. I'm Jeff Hunt, your host of Human capital. I am so grateful for the opportunity on each show to explore the deeply human aspect of work. Today is no exception, as we're gonna talk about how leaders can not only plan better during times of uncertainty, but make better strategic decisions that benefit employees, customers, and stakeholders, even when things seem to be volatile and complex.

Back in 1985, economists, Warren Bennis and Burt Nanus coined the term VUCA, which stands for Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity, and Ambiguity. And this is certainly describing the times that we're living in today. What's the current state of affairs? Well, the latest stats show that non-farm payroll in the US increased by 223,000 in December.

And the unemployment rate edged down to 3.5%, yet last year we saw 154,000 layoffs from more than a thousand companies in the tech sector. And the latest news I just heard today is that Microsoft is laying off 10,000 employees. Today my guest is gonna help me unpack how we can approach this uncertainty through a lens of opportunity.

He's gonna help our listeners understand how HR can play a pivotal business role. In converting VUCA to opportunity, Chris Scalia is Senior Vice President and CHRO overseeing 16,000 employees at the Hershey Company. Chris is a C-suite executive with a rare combination of HR expertise, commercial business acumen, and experience practicing law.

Welcome, Chris!

Chris Scalia:

Jeff, thanks for having me. Glad to be here today.

Topic 1. Who or what inspired you most in your career? (02:19)

Jeff Hunt:

As I do with all of my guests, I'd like you to start by just giving a quick thumbnail of your career journey and also share who inspired you most along the way.

Chris Scalia:

I would love to. So my career journey is atypical for most people that end up in the CHRO chair.

I was actually a big firm lawyer sitting in Philadelphia in late 2004 and got a call from a headhunter in Pittsburgh who said, I really hope today is the day that you hate your job, and I'd like you to consider moving in-house as part of the Labor and employment team at the Hershey Company. Would you be interested in going for an interview?

In that moment, when I went and I interviewed with the team at Hershey, I saw something quite special, and that was the opportunity for both personal growth, but to be part of a company that had not only the original purpose-driven ambition around helping others and helping communities, but also had a real growth story that it was trying to unlock, and I saw a pretty phenomenal opportunity.

They offered me the position, and through the years I spent about four and a half, five years in the law department, various positions, working really closely with HR, did a lot of labor relations work. Always had a philosophy around saying yes to big challenging assignments, especially projects that gave me both insight and expertise in the business, whether it be supply chain and manufacturing, our commercial business sales.

I was just always so fascinated by those types of people, and I think they generally inspired me the most. I'm most inspired by business people. I'm fascinated by the way businesspeople make decisions and how leaders use their resources and time. If I had to say the one person that has inspired me the most over the last several years, it's a difficult choice.

The easy answer is my father, who is a blue collar person who retired from a construction company and managed a lot of people as a project superintendent, and he taught me really two or three things. The first was the importance of work ethic and that even when you don't know something, you probably can do the work and you can learn it, and when you learn it, then you have second the ability to apply it.

And I watched him over the years apply what he does. And what he did back then, and I'd always ended up being in a favorable result for the company, and then ultimately he grew and learned from that. So, it was a very valuable set of lessons. The last piece was that he always challenged me to dream big.

He would say, you know, listen, you're coming from this family. We have humble beginnings. But you can really achieve anything that you want to achieve if you're willing to put the time in and you're willing to commit. And that just stuck with me through everything. And I think that's true of whether law school or graduate school or 10 different roles at the Hershey Company, including being chief talent officer, working with the board, pursuing external ventures, getting involved in my own businesses.

I think my father just sits very squarely at the center of all of that. I'm very grateful for that.

Jeff Hunt:

What a great example and inspiration, and I love how you shared how over the course of your career the game changer was leaning into large projects, which stretched you and helped you learn about the different parts of the company and overcome obstacles.

And that's just such a lesson for everybody. Right?

Chris Scalia:

The one piece of advice I would give any person considering, is the type of change that I personally made several years ago, it's really important to have no plan B. Because when you have plan B, you're not as focused on plan A. And I remember very distinctively talking to my wife and saying to her, look, this must work, this change from being a lawyer to an HR executive, it must work and therefore I'm going to focus on it and give it 100% of my energy and professional attention.

And there is no plan B because naturally, people were worried about what will you do afterwards? And my response was there's no real other opportunity. I will make this one work.

Jeff Hunt:

Well, I'm sure, Chris, that our listeners are wondering how can you not be eating chocolate all day, when you're working at a candy company, what's your secret?

Chris Scalia:

The, the secret is that you have to put at least some time into your day for some snacking. Hershey is very fortunate to have over 80 brands, including some brands that are in new categories. Like salty, where we actually have, skinny pop popcorn, pirates, booty, the cheddar puff, as well as now dots, pretzels, those are three of the five fastest growing snack brands in the United States.

They have been, a real shot of energy for our growth strategy. But then you have the, the kind of heavyweight favorites like the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, which is a 3 billion dollar brand in growing, of course Hershey Kisses and the Kit Kat brands and so on. I find the easiest thing to do is just accept that you're going to have a few snacks in the day and plan accordingly.

And, you know, moderation is your friend. And if you think about that and you apply it to all things in life, it really is a prescription for happiness in my opinion.

Topic 2. Avoiding overcorrection, how to manage in the face of risk and economic pressure? (07:23)

Jeff Hunt:

Good strategies. In our intro, I mentioned a lot about the uncertainty that exists today, and oftentimes leadership teams are spending so much energy trying to manage risk.

It seems like we're also seeing many examples of companies that have tended to over-correct. In the midst of risk. And so, my question for you is, how can we as business leaders make better decisions to not overcorrect in the face of economic pressures?

Chris Scalia:

Probably more prevalent discussions going on in boardrooms or in management suites and certainly among leadership teams. So, for me, I think it comes down to, do you have a clear picture of what the growth objective is, what opportunities have been presented to you by this change in context, and what are the things that are truly structurally changing?

And in this regard, I do think there are three things that are structurally shifting. First, the nature of work itself is accelerating both from a technology standpoint, but also from a human standpoint. And those two concepts are naturally in conflict with each other, and we can dive into that. Second, I do believe supply chains and the concept of supply chain in the way that it services any business.

I do think supply chain and having expertise in supply chain is going to be a differentiator for companies going forward. It's just too far, gone in terms of cost management, inflation, so that's pretty important. And then lastly, I do think the structure of leadership is different and we've asked leaders for a long time to stay out of a person's personal affairs.

To not ask how they're doing, but make sure that you're not creating some false liability, or we've asked people to keep the personal lives and the needs of people reasonably at bay and then suddenly in the pandemic, we are asking leaders to deploy an entirely new set of skills, which is to be more inclusive, to demonstrate more care and concern, to bring people closer.

In terms of the mix between professional and personal life, to actually create opportunities for them to get the care that they need for mental health, to create opportunities for them to grow their careers and ensure that we are the kind of the last guardians of that safety net, that government and frankly, society has allowed to deteriorate.

So, I think it's a whole new world for leadership and it's going to have a really interesting impact on things like our employment laws, our policies, our practices, recruiting, but leadership is fundamentally and structurally changed going forward.

Topic 3. The power of empathy and connecting with people (10:11)

Jeff Hunt:

And I'm just reflecting on what you said about connecting with people because it is a new skillset, and it seems to be more effective when leadership teams and executives can be explicit about the importance of that connection.

And it truly makes sense because if my employees know that I care about them personally, in addition to professionally and how they're performing on their job, they're gonna be more engaged and they're gonna be more likely to step up when it's needed. And also, if I have a higher degree of empathy and compassion for whatever they're going through, which is unique for each person, that also affords me a more fulfilling workplace, doesn’t it?

Chris Scalia:

Yeah, I actually think it's probably one of the more pragmatic pieces of advice to your listeners on avoiding overcorrection. So much of the decision making now, whether it's in the C-suite or on a leadership team, or even if it's on at a much higher level, if it's a question of macroeconomic factors, those decisions are all about context.

That is not new, but context matters so much now to executives and understanding what people are experiencing, having a very clear mission around the priority to drive the particular business objective. That is a win for both the company and its shareholders, but also for the people who are doing the work.

I think that context comes only from pretty immersive listening, whether it be at the macro level to the broad base using labor statistics and so on, across the various places where you operate, but really within your function and then within your team, and then within those one-to-one relationships.

But Jeff, honestly, none of this is actually new. It's been amplified by the current circumstances and frankly, the needs of people.

Jeff Hunt:

And so, one of the things I'm thinking about is in the intro I gave these statistics about how you've had these layoffs in the tech sector. There's tension between that and the low unemployment rate.

What people don't realize is the tech sector actually, I think only accounts for maybe 2% of the total employee population in the country. What we're not talking about are organizations that are still dealing with labor challenges and finding the right people and getting 'em on board and paying them enough money and retaining them.

And it seems like one of the things that you did at Hershey that has been a great way to address some of these complexities was to create your first bilingual plant. And I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about that process and decision.

Chris Scalia:

So, we are certainly not immune to some of the challenges that the manufacturing sector.

One unique thing about Hershey is that we're almost actually 19,000 employees now. Over 80% of those, those employees are resident in manufacturing facilities, and they're part of our manufacturing team, and that is truly the lifeblood of the Hershey Company. If you look at the most critical group of roles, it really is manufacturing and then our retail teams that are out moving the product for consumers and for customers.

When you look at what we've faced there are two interesting dynamics. One, are you actually addressing the convertible market that is available to you and to what our bilingual initiative is part of that. Second, are you creating the type of experience that both culturally and from a sense of my own personal needs state, is that experience consistent with what I need and my culture?

And that was the beginning of what is called Project say hola. Which is a bilingual initiative that was created at our Hazleton, Pennsylvania facility. And let me just go through a few of the details. So, we were having very substantial challenges getting either enough applicants. Who could meet the minimum qualifications for manufacturing or even folks that were able to remain in the job, but they would actually refer other people.

And what we learned is that 25% of the marketplace surrounding the Hazleton manufacturing facility was actually first, Spanish speaking and of Hispanic culture, and yet our applications were in the single digits. Our key insight was, well, of course that's exactly what you could expect. Your entire facility is in English.

All of your screens, your snack choices in your cafeterias and your meals, the handbooks, all of the safety guidance, everything that you see that is on a person's shirt. The guidance that they receive from managers, all of it is in English. And so the message that you're sending to this Hispanic community is in fact that you're not Hispanic friendly.

Well, back to the point around my needs state and my culture, we know that in Hispanic culture, that is a very considerable recommendation whether a person would recommend another place to a member of their community. Is the difference between a person applying and ultimately joining the Hershey company and then of course a person remaining.

So, we took an effort to not only go through and create supervisors, bilingual support in each of the overall business functions and support centers inside of the plant, bilingual signage screens. And it's an ongoing effort that we are looking to make into a repeatable process in play across all of our manufacturing centers where we have that same convertible market.

And in order to do that, it requires us to rethink the way that all of this has been done in the past. And I would tell you that so far the results, are pretty encouraging. About 50% of the applications now actually are coming from that key demographic, and we've ruled over 150 of 600 people in the plant.

150 of them are now from the Hispanic community. And linked to that Hispanic culture. So, we are feeling good about where we're going. It is not easy work. It was a challenge for us. I think it's a bright spot in what has been a very challenging manufacturing environment, but so far it's a win for the right thing to do.

It also fits very squarely within our ESG agenda as well as our DE&I agenda. So, I can't say enough about the people that have executed that program. I think it's now a question of scale.

Topic 4. Integrated planning, what is it and how to use it (16:51)

Jeff Hunt:

Chris, talk a little bit about the concept of integrated planning and how you use this at the Hershey Company.

Chris Scalia:

Integrated planning is the concept that you could bring all dimensions of supply, of consumer demand creation, as well as your overall customer planning and the ways that you fulfill the needs of the customer, your unique customer programming that you could bring all of that together into a data-driven and analytically derived way so that you can look at it and say, This is what we know to be the numbers.

And so much of this is, frankly relegated over the years to past practices. There are certain technologies that exist that help somewhat, but none of it is truly integrated together. And we are on a long journey to figure out exactly how we connect each aspect of our planning system together to create advantage for us in the marketplace.

We've had a number of early wins and we have really smart people who are working on it. I don't think we are where we need to be just yet because we're still working on it. And it's creating all sorts of wonderful opportunities for us to bring more insight into our business decision making, which I would tell you more data and insight into choice making is absolutely not only what people are talking about, but it is one of those things that will not be a fad or trend five years from now.

It is here and how you harness it will be ultimately the way that you deliver. I would say in another year, talk to me about integrated dynamic planning and, and we'll know if our vision and mission were something that we could actually execute, but I feel great about the progress they've made so far. It is absolutely without question paramount to our business that we are the most effective at planning we possibly can be.

Products companies live and die on planning, and those that do it really well are going to be not only superior in their marketplace results, but frankly with the consumer and the customer, and other than our employees. Those are the two most important stakeholder groups.

Jeff Hunt:

It sounds like what you're saying also takes into consideration long range, medium range, and short term planning time horizons, right?

Chris Scalia:

It sure does. And the thing that from an HR perspective that is so critical is to understand the talent gaps that, that type of approach and strategy creates.

Topic 5. The importance of values in alignment, creating more moments of goodness (19:05)

Jeff Hunt:

The other thing I'm thinking about with regard to planning is the importance of aligning outcomes with vision, mission, core values, purpose.

What are some ways that you've successfully done that? And by the way, that to me seems like the most compelling messaging for every employee because if they understand your vision and where you're going and why you're going there and what you're doing, and what sort of behaviors are you promoting and encouraging in the workplace in order to accomplish these objectives and your actual purpose, then they are gonna be significantly more engaged.

Chris Scalia:

Absolutely. Look, I could spend two hours with you and we could be talking about the ways that we're looking to use culture as a competitive advantage. We're very fortunate. Hershey, as a company, is one of the few companies in the world that can say, When you are buying one of our products, you are directly impacting the life of a child at risk who is either on his or her way or already at the Milton Hershey School.

What I love about the Hershey Company is that we so rarely, if ever, tell you about that in order to sell products, that's not why we exist, and so our purpose is more moments of goodness, more moments of goodness for consumers and more moments of goodness for children at risk. Our communities in which we live and work.

Our people when you meet them, they not only, I think quite vocally celebrate that purpose, but they also live it, and that's, I think, so critical to the way that you align your business is that the people who walk in the door understand your purpose from the very beginning. They identify with at least elements and pieces of it, if not the entirety of your purpose.

They see themselves in that purpose. They can relate to it, and they can connect their work. And then they have the ability to go ask questions around things like strategy or your long-term algorithmic ambitions, or how you create total shareholder return. And for us, we have been really focused over the past year on driving alignment at each level of information that exists for an employee.

And so, we've aligned purpose and we've aligned our long-term strategic plan, what we call our leading snacking powerhouse vision, a 10-year vision. We're clear on our mission to deliver number one TSR among our peer set 10 years in a row. We're clear on how we make that work and the four elements of the strategy, the behaviors, and the skills that we'll need, the transformative leadership that we'll need where I think we have an opportunity, and this is what we're working on right now.

We have to make this resonate for not only the folks that, the 80% on the factory floor, they have to see all of this in the work that they do, but we also have to make it resonate for all of the people who are even thinking about joining Hershey or might have never thought like I was to join Hershey.

And so, I think we've made incredible, wonderful progress. I'm proud of the results we've generated. I'm definitely proud of our people and how we've navigated. Not only the pandemic, but frankly using our culture as an advantage. I'm really proud of our senior management team. Something I love to talk about is our approachability as a management team.

We joke often, how years ago you might not have walked up to a member of the senior executive team, and now people are moving through the executive wing and we're out talking and we're on stage and we're making fun of ourselves and having fun with something that should be fun, which is winning and winning at a great company.

And so, I do give all of the credit to our CEO, Michelle, and our management team, my colleagues, but most importantly to our people. It's not something that you can go and create selection criteria for it. No, you have to buy into it and believe it. And if you do, typically you join and you stay, but that last piece of getting to the factory floor is mission for 23.

We've made progress in 22. We have more work to do in 23.

Topic 6. Strengths and growth opportunities for Hershey (23:30)

Jeff Hunt:

That leadership and executive accessibility and transparency is so much more enticing to employees than the closed-door strategy where they're always wondering what shoe's gonna drop. And so anyway, I applaud you and your leadership team and Michelle as well.

Chris, when you think about the people team at Hershey, what would you say are the greatest strengths and what are the biggest growth opportunities or challenges that you're facing?

Chris Scalia: Yeah, I always like to tell my team that our mission is to advance value and value means for the shareholder ultimately in our profitability. In our revenue per employee, value means for our employees in creating the right experience that resonates with a broad audience for generations, and value means for each other. I admire our people team, our HR team so much. They are tenacious, their greatest strength is that they truly understand the business and they're able to apply the craft of HR and the latest thinking, the data and the insights to that business to generate a very valuable outcome.

There's very little room within the HR team for not understanding our business and not being able to apply what you know, and you're an expert in. We have phenomenal workforce analytics capability. Sometimes scary to watch it in action and the types of decisions that I might have made before the benefit of workforce analytics.

So, another strength for us. We're darn strong at internal talent development. 90% of our executive team was raised from within. Over 85% of our vice president team was raised within. I had 10 development assignments. We have pushed that pipeline lower into the organization and now have the top 200 at the manager and below level.

In manufacturing, we have a very different bent on the. We approach development, which is we want you to be great at your role. We want you to have a great relationship with your leader. We want you to see opportunities to improve your skills, but this kind of linear progression to the C-Suite, we really want you to enjoy being at manufacturing and being part of that team.

It's like I said, the lifeblood of the business, so we're really good at that, and I'm thrilled with the progress we've made in our DE&I agenda. I think we've added accessibility, to our agenda. We've been really real with folks on the results. We've talked with our leaders about how we're doing.

We've earned accolades that we didn't apply for as far as opportunities go. Our biggest opportunity is always going to be prioritization. It's probably from their overly ambitious, CHRO, but also this is a business that is filled with people who obsess on excellence. And when you have a business that is filled with people who are relationship based, who believe in excellence and hold each other to a higher standard, they tend to do a lot.

So, I find that the mission for CHROs, for executive teams, for our CEO is just really constantly checking the prioritization meter to ensure that we're as focused as we need to be. That has a whole new connotation now because it actually directly affects wellbeing, and I don't know that we have that completely figured out yet in a period of phenomenal growth for this company. We're working on it and it's something that I think we're getting better at. I want to see more in 2023. Jeff Hunt:

Well, and time is the most precious commodity. And so learning how to prioritize that time spend, I can understand why that would be such a key thing for you.

Chris Scalia:

And, and you know, honestly, Jeff, so much of, of learning how to maximize one's impact is, yes, around the concepts of time management and prioritization, so on. But it's often in the art of saying no

Teaching people how to say no to things, especially in a culture of relationships, is especially challenging for us. Understanding that no is not a personal no. It's a no, because I have other more compelling things to do.

I think our, our corporate communications team has just done such a wonderful job of bringing our leaders to the center of the dialogue, making sure that they are informed, and then sharing with them where we're taking the company, why we're doing that, how it impacts them. I think our leadership teams during the pandemic and beyond have rallied.

Two things will have saved the Hershey company during that period of darkness. Number one will be our leaders, and number two will be the mighty work of our supply chain and manufacturing retail teams. When all of this is said and done and we move on to the next VUCA moment, we will look back on this period in our history and say those groups of people forget what they do.

But those groups of people, they protected not only the Hershey company and its value, but the people in it. And I'm darn proud of them for that. And I know that's what history's going to say.

Jeff Hunt:

A very impressive testimony

Chris Scalia:

Don't take my word for it.

Topic 7. Lighting round questions (28:12)

Jeff Hunt:

Are you ready to switch to some lightning-round questions?

Chris Scalia:

I love lightning round. Let's do it.

Jeff Hunt:

The first one's, what are you most grateful for?

Chris Scalia:

I am most grateful for the gift of being on this planet as a healthy person who is able to do what I love to do with people, that I love doing it with my family and the support that they give me so I can pursue my life's work.

This is the farthest thing in the world from a job for me. And it is just something that I'm, I'm so grateful for this opportunity in this moment. I recognize that it's fleeting. Time is the great currency of life, and I'm very cognizant of that, and I'm grateful for the fact that I have the ability to spend most of it doing what I love.

Jeff Hunt:

What's the most difficult leadership lesson you've learned over your career?

Chris Scalia:

That everything you do will likely be jagged and irregular and hardly linear. Like progress in the way that you want to achieve a particular outcome will depend so much on your ability to bring others along, and that is a skill that must be honed and practiced.

And if you expect that your journey, from start to finish on some major change initiative or a particular growth ambition or an HR objective for growth. If you expect that to be linear, if you expect your own development to be linear, up until the right, probably going to be disappointed. And that lesson plus the lesson of no matter who you are.

You must have miles on the odometer. That's not necessarily to develop expertise. I'm not sure I buy into 10,000 hours from a science standpoint and so on, but miles on the odometer is what gives you the great experiences that when something truly volatile happens or something uncertain happens, you have the ability to draw on those experiences.

And I had to learn that the hard way. Times throughout my career, bring others along and you just need to have done it before in order to do it right next time.

Jeff Hunt:

What's the voice of wisdom? Who is one person you would interview if you could living or not?

Chris Scalia:

This is a great question, living or not? Oh my.

I would really love to speak to Barack Obama. I don't hold him out as a personal icon by any stretch of the imagination, but I deeply respect him. I respect what he brought to the presidency, which was a unique perspective, having been the first on many levels. I appreciate the gift of youth that he brought to that office, and I would love to sit and talk with him.

I'm not terribly aged myself, but I would love to sit and talk with him about how he applied both his youth, but also his kind of relentless curiosity to what, by any stretch, is the most difficult job on the planet. I would love to hear his insight. And his reflection now. And I would also very much like to understand his routines.

I'm fascinated by the routines of executives. I always want to understand the way that they use the currency of life. So, Bar Barack Obama up on that list. I could go through history and name five other presidents. I would love, I'm not Catholic, but I would love to interview two or three popes.

I think that is such a fascinating body of work. But yeah, those are just a couple. I love that question. Thank you for asking that question.

Jeff Hunt:

Do you have a top book recommendation for our listeners?

Chris Scalia:

So right now I have unfortunately six books going. This is the problem I start them. I'm halfway through the memoir of Ulysses Grant.

It is one that if you want to understand the painstaking detail and recollection of a president looking back on his war service I recommend it, but settle in for the long haul. The Boys in the Boat, which is the story of the 1934 Rowing Team. Great book if you wanna understand teamwork and adversity and what it feels like to be counted out.

That is a great book. I'm working my way through that, from an HR and business standpoint, I love your strategy needs a strategy. That is a, a really fun book. This is could we have a supplemental reading list? What we owe the future, and how to avoid a climate disaster? I just could go on and on, I just love this.

Jeff Hunt:

So, Chris, what's the most important takeaway to leave our listeners with from our talk today?

Chris Scalia:

Uncertainty is opportunity and the role of a corporate executive really has multiple facets, but the most important is how to figure out what that opportunity is and realistically achieve whatever opportunity is present.

And I think the key takeaway around uncertainty or volatility or any of the things we've dealt with is that you're not the first. To have gone through this, you certainly will not be the last. Let's hope you're not the last, because humanity's in for it. I do think there is a broader role for corporate executives and a long overdue debate on the role of corporations in our society.

However, my twist on that is I do think there's a need for reconciliation of what the role of a corporation is under the laws of this country or any other country. These things are all at odds with each other, but none of what we've talked about today, is anything other than opportunity. And while things might be more difficult, they are certainly easier in other regards.

This technology that we're talking on right now, I'm not in San Francisco and you're not in Pennsylvania, and yet we're connecting, no question the boundaries of travel have been expanded. Virtual reality, augmented reality will make experiences which, not only fuel the currency of time but frankly make it meaningful.

Those will be much more accessible to people, inclusion, all those things. So, while some things are more challenging, there will be things that are better. And it's the role of the executive is to truly figure out that opportunity, and then to execute. You know, so much of it is about the execution. I just think this has been a wonderful conversation and I'm, I'm very grateful for it. I'm glad that you thought of me.

Jeff Hunt:

Well, Chris, thank you so much for bringing all this wisdom to our listeners today. I really appreciate our conversation,

Chris Scalia:

Jeff. Thanks a lot. Thanks to all the listeners.

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Outro(35:02)

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Jeff Hunt:

Thanks for listening to Human Capital, if you like this show please tell your friends and also take the time to go rate and review us. Human Capital is a production of GoalSpan, your integrated source for performance management. Now go out and be the inspiration to other humans, and thank you for being human kind.